“…C. S. Lewis rightly understood that the purpose of the church was to draw people to Christ and make them like Christ. He said that the church exists for no other purpose. ‘If the Church is not doing this, then all the cathedrals, clergy, missions, sermons, even the Bible, are a waste of time.’”
-Alan Hirsch, The Forgotten Ways
“In point of fact, I think the Christian religion is the one religion that most clearly deserves to be honored and respected whether or not its claim to be a divine revelation is true. There is nothing like the combination of a charismatic figure like Jesus and a first-class intellectual like St. Paul. Virtually all the argument about the content of the religion was produced by St. Paul, who had a brilliant philosophical mind, and could both speak and write in all the relevant languages. If you’re wanting Omnipotence to set up a religion, this is the one to beat.”
–Dr. Antony Flew, further commenting on his move from atheism to theism
5 comments:
Interesting thoughts. I disagree with the first one though, and I would be surprised if CS Lewis actually thought those things.
While I agree that the church is meant to draw people to Christ, it's not necessarily to make them like Him. That is the Holy Spirit's job. He does the transforming. I would also suggest that missions, sermons, the Bible, etc. do infact serve to draw people to Christ and making them more like Him.
Your thoughts??
Interesting...I think you're right, but I dont know that the quote is completely wrong. It seems like the church does have an element of responsibility to draw people to an understanding of Christ and therefore present Him as something to believe in. Hopefully the church is motivated by the Holy Spirit...
It would be beneficial to read more of the context around what Lewis is saying. I'll see if I can dig it up.
I like this kind of dialogue! :)
Jess,
I like this quote and I think you are right in defending the purpose of the Church. We cannot seperate the Church and the Holy Spirit as though they were completely detached things. The Church is in fact God's idea and the insturment through which He has chosen the Spirit to move through history. Lewis constantly defended this and I think Hirsch highlights it effectively.
Thanks for sharing.
I appreciate the opinions! (I wrote this response earlier but lost it, so bear with me as I try to remember what I had written)...
I guess my point was that while yes, the Church does play an important role in discipleship, accountability, encouragement, etc., is it not also true that SERMONS can be used by God to make people like Christ? Isn't MISSIONS used by God to transform lives and make people like Christ? Doesn't the BIBLE itself have the power to make people more like Christ? The Church does all of those things, but the only thing that makes them powerful is the Lord! I believe God is the one who draws people to Himself and imparts Christ-like character... to say that is 100% the Church's responsibility robs God of that glory and gives people something to boast about.
The Bible says of itself that it is living and active, sharper than a double edged sword, able to divide soul and spirit, bone and marrow. So wouldn't it be feasible, then, that someone stranded on a deserted island with just a Bible could -- by God's Spirit and God's Word, be made more and more Christlike without anyone else being involved?
Interested in your responses :) You're right Jess, this is fun dialog!
Jamie,
Great thoughts and certainly I agree with your sentiment that the Church is not be thought of as replacing Missions or Sermons or the like.
I think the central assumption for Lewis is that any of those important tasks/undertakings always flow from the Church. The Church is not a separate entity situated opposite of, say, MISSIONS. It is more true to say that MISSIONS grows in the womb of the Church and is sustained by its constant connection to the Body.
We know this implicitly, I think. We tend to frown on those who think they can "go it alone", who don't need any connection to a tradition or community. All too often the lone ranger "Christians" fall into heresy and spread a gospel that does not reflect 2000 years of Christianity, but their own individual biases and misinterpretations. I think we implicitly assume that it is best for missionaries "to be sent out", or commissioned by their communities/churches for the sake of evangelizing the lost. So, in this sense, we see that MISSIONS finds its strength and temperament from the body of believers that not only send forth the missionaries, but uphold them in prayer and accountability. The Church in this sense is indispensable.
You said at one point, "I believe God is the one who draws people to Himself and imparts Christ-like character... to say that is 100% the Church's responsibility robs God of that glory and gives people something to boast about."
I think Lewis would again say that you don't have to treat these as separate. The Church was Christ's idea, He instituted it, founded it, and set it on its mission. Because of this not only is it the Church's responsibility (and remember the Church is always made up of individual people acting in community with one another) but whenever the Church acts, God always gets the Glory. Get rid of the Church and all you have are autonomous individuals. And my sense is the danger of people boasting is as strong (if not stronger) when they go it alone than when they are tied to the Church.
As to your last comment about what the Bible says of itself, I want to contend with your interpretation of the verse from Hebrews you use.
You stated, "The Bible says of itself that it is living and active, sharper than a double edged sword, able to divide soul and spirit, bone and marrow."
When we take a closer look at the text I think it becomes clear that the writer of Hebrews here is not referring to the Bible, but to Jesus. Your paraphrase is taken from v. 12 of chapter 4 and if we read it all the way to the end we hear this: "able to discern reflections and thoughts of the heart." My sense is that a book is not "able to discern." This is an attribute of something more than words on a page. What makes this all the more clear is what we read in v. 13, "No creature is concealed from him, but everything is naked and exposed to the eyes of him whom we must render an account.
We know from the rest of Scripture that it is not the Bible we render an account to, but Christ Himself. So I think a fairer reading of the text leads us away from seeing this verse as a proof text for the isolated power of the Bible.
It is probably worth noting that the phrase, "The Word of God" is a reference to Christ himself, which is made definitively clear in the opening words of John's Gospel. I think we Christians have too often used that phrase as referring to Scripture when it is more appropriately reserved for Jesus.
The point of all this is to affirm the good things you are putting forth but to see a recapturing of the centrality of the Church as the good and true blessing that Christ extends to us for those very ends.
I'm really enjoying this...always do.
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